The Cleary Mind[s] Podcast with Brian Berry, Total Security Solutions

In this episode of The Cleary Mind[s] Podcast, host Tom Egan sits down Brian Berry, VP of Key Accounts at Total Security Solutions in Fowlerville. Brian's career has been built around growth, leadership, and creating opportunities for others -  from scaling organizations and leading international business operations to earning an MBA later in life, the conversation explores what it truly means to build a successful and meaningful career. 

The episode dives into powerful lessons on leadership, personal branding, networking, and career development. Listeners will hear practical advice on “raising your hand” for opportunities, creating career options through continued education, and understanding the importance of “life balance” rather than just “work-life balance.” The guest also shares impactful personal stories about mentorship, leadership compassion, and how experiences—from international business challenges to family hardships—helped shape his leadership philosophy. 

Throughout the discussion, students and young professionals are encouraged to think beyond titles and salaries, focusing instead on relationships, discipline, communication, and authenticity. The episode highlights the importance of protecting your personal brand in the digital world, learning from experienced mentors, and understanding that true success often comes from helping others grow alongside you. 

The conversation closes with a reminder that perfection doesn’t exist, setbacks are part of every journey, and growth comes from facing challenges head-on. It’s an inspiring and practical episode filled with real-world insights for anyone looking to lead, grow, and create more opportunities in both career and life. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Cleary Minds podcast. I'm your host, Tom Egan. Here, the classroom meets the real world, and we talk with leaders and change makers. Let's get into it. Some context.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Yeah, yeah, thank you. What a great day. And um so right now I'm vice president of Key Accounts for a company called Total Security Solutions out of Fowlerville, Michigan. And uh really they're their their core reason uh to live is to provide protective systems for companies to protect people. Um so it's ballistic barriers, doors, walls, furniture, podiums, things of that sort. Uh it's just an unfortunate scenario that uh society has has placed us in. But uh our company is a a leader in uh being innovative as well as uh offering total solutions as opposed to just panels of a product. So walk in uh and make it look like it was meant to be designed into the architecture of the facility.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Seamless as well. Well, thanks for doing that protective work. That's amazing. And now, from what I know about you, you know, your job is obviously to grow the business, right? Grow company. And and prior to that, you spent about 17 years growing another business, and and that seems to be um kind of like your superpower.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Right. Yeah. I've been very fortunate. It's really just you when you get into an organization, you find its strengths. You look at the team members that you can build upon, you look at a customer base that you can you can build upon, and then organically you leverage what you have, expand the awareness of the brand, of the products, of of the capabilities, and then figure out how to help other other customers or find new customers. But at the end of the day, it's about the value proposition. It's more of consultative selling because people like buying from people. You get in front of uh you get in front of them, their needs, and really just you listen. And by listening, they feed you into what the consultative approach and what the business solution and what your key value propositions are and can be and how you can help them.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

And companies just want people that can help them, not just not just sell products, not just buy products.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Well, clearly that's your superpower, you know, growing by, I think you said a factor of 10 or somewhere in that area. Um, and that's what you're good at, it's what you're talented at. But in all of that activity, what is it that you love most about what you do? What lights you up the most?

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Yeah, you know, uh at the end of the day, the the team goes. The team goes where leadership or the strategy takes them, and the team grows and the team benefits. So you see the team benefit from executing plans that get put in place. And I'm just a team member. You roll up the sleeves, you help, you jump, you're in the middle of it. A title is just something that you need for a big meeting every once in a while, but at the end of the day, you're a team member and you just want to lead by example. But yeah, to see other team members get promoted, have other opportunities. Sometimes uh they do so well they leave the organization. Yeah. And you have to encourage a div uh a culture, an atmosphere of of development, of progression, and um let it let people let people win and fail. And they may leave. Right. They may leave you, right? But that's okay. Yeah, and that's that's what at the end of the day uh they help the company for for their period of time. Uh but the most rewarding thing is is seeing the team be able to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Right. I I love that, you know, after talking to people for a while now, I hear patterns and themes, and I love, you know, obviously the title is you know, a success, a level of success, but hearing that true success is helping others be successful is just a really nice kind of maturation on the journey to success. So I like hearing that, and I loved you sharing that with our store uh students as well. So thank you. Um and then is there something in all of that you're most proud of in your career journey?

SPEAKER_02 4:17

You know, it's it's it's hard to pick, it's hard to pick one thing. Yeah. Um, I think I shared today. There were a couple of students or a couple of employees who were thinking about going back to school. And I encouraged them, go. I'll give you the time, we'll make it work, I'll give you the latitude for your travel. And they went and finished, they they were able to come complete or start and and finish their degree. Uh, there were a couple of individuals who excelled in what they were doing, but they had they had hit their their peak and they weren't going to go any further. And they asked me, hey, I have this job opportunity, what should I do? And I've said you should leave.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

I mean, if you really think about to what's best for for you and your family and where you're going, you need you need to leave us. But if it doesn't work out, come back. Yeah. Um but it's a you're you're you're selfish for the company and that you want to keep your key players, but at the same time, if if there's not a path forward and they may they'll leave anyway, yeah, why not why not help them better their better their life.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

I love that. And that's a great segue into some of the lessons you shared with our students because a huge one for yourself and for others was having options, right? You gave that message. I see you creating options, more options for some of your employees. But um, I love the story you told when you were 40, you know, the the things you asked yourself and and then what came out of that. Maybe you could talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Yeah, so um you're right. So around 40 years old at the time, it was okay. If I felt very secure in my job where I was, what was happening, we were experiencing nice growth year after year. But there was just something that if this comes to an end, if someday the company decides that uh it's not me anymore, because when you're the the higher you go, the closer you are to the front door, is the old the old saying of it. But things happen, business changes, needs happen. I have limitations, there are individuals who can come in after me and and take the company to levels maybe that I I can't uh do that as well. So it was um, you know, should I go back to school and get my graduate degree? And uh I pursued that at the age of 48. So at 48, enrolled at uh Cleary University, and the MBA program, Global Leadership, uh was the the area focus that I chose. And in uh 2020, May of 2020, completed that degree. And the options that it gave me then was if that day came along and I needed to make a decision or or a decision would be made for me regarding my career path, then I have that MBA. And the MBA then creates, you know, you're looking at jobs, say MBA preferred, I can apply to those. Or if it's just an undergraduate degree, I also have the the um the um MBA. So it just it it helps me to create create more options.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

Um and ultimately, um ultimately, you know, it all it all worked out that way to where I need to have some other options and had in place.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Well, I was just struck, I never have heard somebody sort of spontaneously ask themselves that question along the way, right? And the fact that you did some um kind of like uh proactive activity towards that, and your message was you know, continue your education, you get more options, and also networking, you get more options. I saw you as you were telling your story, build like this deck of cards where when push comes to shove, you have options than if you just kind of put your head down. So I thought that was great. And then in parallel, the message of marketing, you know, I think it was interesting to hear the students ask questions. I think they were thinking like marketing is something like, okay, I'm gonna put on my marketing hat and I'm gonna go out to this specific thing to specifically marketing to market myself. And I think you told a different story that was more integrative.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Yeah, and yeah, it's important. We we all have our own brand. In this digital world, you have your own personal brand. Yeah, and it's what others see: your friends, your peers, your colleagues, your boss, the owners of your company, yeah, shareholders, whomever. And it's important to understand and protect your personal brand because it's it's how others will connect with you and decide if they do business with you potentially. Even as a salesperson, I'm going to be making some some calls with some larger corporations. I would expect them to look on my LinkedIn page and say, okay, what's his, you know, what's his background? So it's not just getting the job, it's also just as you're as you're interacting and doing business, it may help you get into a business opportunity, not just a job, just a business opportunity to uh to sell your your your services, your solutions, your your value proposition that you may have.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Well, you know, some some of the students came up and introduced themselves, and um, you know, sometimes that's surprising, but I think what's surprising to the students is when you connect to like the sport they played or where they came from or you know, where they grew up or what their hobby is, you know, they're sort of surprised that oh, I introduced myself, but now I have this conversation's happening. And you know, that's all part of network and building those connections. So it is. I love that you gave that message. Um yeah, and then you had some interesting, um interesting lessons, some ups and downs, and you know, like 2008 hit and different investments and different side hustles and different projects, which which seemed normal, but you had an interesting message because you know, all the students always ask about work-life balance. You sort of framed it in a larger perspective.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Yeah, so uh, and and I for many years I have been sitting okay, work-life balance, work-life balance. I've even gone to my my manager at times, hey, I need this work-life balance, and it's really your life balance because work is just a big chunk of it, and it's it's 40, 50, 60 hours a week. Yeah, but it's really life balance. Uh-huh. And then that question that we had towards the end of the day is how do you, how do you not ensure, but how can what can you do to to help you with your with your life balance? And my answer was you need to have an open, honest, uh, understanding, communication, transparency with with your boss, with your hiring manager, yeah. So that they know what's important to you. Right. And if they know that, and if they want to retain you and they're a good human being, they're going to help accommodate what you're looking for. Now, at the end of the day, and as I told the class, you're hired to do a job. This isn't a way to skirt any responsibilities. The company is paying you to do a job. You need to do it well. Um, it's not a pass, but it's how can you help me with the and that I have with uh with the life, but it's life balance. And I was using a phrase of smart, selfish a little bit in that uh that's my next thing. Be selfish, but be smart about it. Yeah. But look out for you. Yeah. Um look out for your family, look out for what's important to you. Um, and you know, it can be a challenge because smart, selfish can be viewed as um, you're thinking about me instead of just the company. It's a it's a we thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Well, but that that was a weird catch 22, right? Because we want somebody that's collaborative, we want somebody that's about the team, and success is about making other people successful. But sometimes, in order to, you know, define or defend yourself in a work role, it has to be about me. I that's right. I did this, right? Not the team did this, the team did do this, but you have to understand what perspective you're in. And I thought you gave kind of a great transition to not always be me, not always be we, but to know when to use each. And I thought that was interesting.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Yeah, I I got caught in an interview where I was saying we, we, we, and that's just the way I'm wired. That's the word that I lead with. And then after the interview, it's like, well, but what did you do? And like, wait, what what what have I been saying for the last 20 minutes? That's been the team. And I I just happen to have the title and the org box that is top of it. Right. But uh, yeah, it's it's again, it's that's that's smart.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

But smart, selfish, smart, selfish. I love that. I highlighted that. That and and you know, we just went through that with interviewing for some of our positions here as well. You know, what's the we and what's the I. So that was a great. And I never heard anybody kind of tease it apart like that either. So that was great. And then, you know, smart, selfish, i we, life balance, work, let your boss, let your manager know about you and what you need and what's important to you. And I think you told a story that really brought that home about leadership in general, where you needed, you know, five weeks, some extra time to handle some personal issues. Maybe you could share that story because I thought that was Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

So um had a family member, my father had uh had a stroke, then had a second stroke, and he was uh he was in the hospital. We were able to stay by his side for five weeks. Uh ultimately he passed. Uh go back to work, and I'm called into the CEO's office. And uh he said, Hey, heard about your dad passing, he just wanted to pass along my condolences. Sorry for that. And um he said, But um, we're not going to charge you one minute of personal time, any PTO, for the five weeks you've been out. And I just looked at him, I didn't I just couldn't get my head around that. I said to Jim Jim, I don't understand. You can't do that. Don't do that, take it all. Yeah, you let me spend time with a family member the last five weeks of his life, and that that's all I need. Yeah. He said, look, he said, if you take care of the company, the company will take care of you, and that's what we're doing right now. And then I asked how I could pay that back. I still couldn't get my head around that. Uh eyes filled up and just a little emotional about it. Uh huh. And he said, someday, whether it's our company or another company, you will be in a position where you will be able to extend the same, the same mindset and take care of others uh in in something that they're facing. He said, that's how you will repay me. Right. And uh that that kind of reshaped my uh reshaped me a bit for my leadership style and and just um Yeah, incredible.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Yeah. But also you you talk about, you know, doing going the extra mile for your employees so they want to stay working with you, but it also converted to how you were as a leader going forward. And uh, you know, I was surprised I got emotional, the students got really quiet, you know. I got goosebumps now, even I got goosebumps then, but I'm and I'm just emotional that you got the opportunity to be with your dad when it was most important.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

So amen to that. Um yeah, um a lot came up around social media. Okay.

unknown 15:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

A lot of kids are struggling with what to put on. Um, I think you gave some great message about um you have four years to to clean this up if you need to. But um yeah, and I thought the students were interesting, you know, you you talked about kind of looking for risky things about a person that may, you know, bring exposure to a company or because you you're following their brand after all. But a lot of students say, well, what happens if I don't have Facebook or Instagram? And I thought that was interesting too. Like, great.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

I mean, yeah. Oh, I I think either either you're just not engaged in it, you don't need it, you don't get energy from it, yeah. Uh something you just don't need, or you realize what is this?

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

And uh nothing against. I mean, it can do a lot, a lot of a lot of commerce is done on uh e-commerce and social media and things of that sort. Yeah, but it is it is the reality that when you're interviewing, when you meet somebody, I'm going to look them up. If your resume makes it through, first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to look on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

And again, if if it's a if it's it's always a tailgating party and things of that sort, I mean there's nothing wrong with that. But if you put your whole life out there in something that looks risky, um, it's not a diary. Yeah. And uh it's just something it it is part of. They don't think it's professional, they're part of their professional world, yeah. As much as I'll say LinkedIn, but it's all it's all one and one in the same. Uh it's their personal brand that they have to protect because out of curiosity, people are going to look, even maybe after you get the job, but it is something it's their personal brand, and they have to understand what's what's good, what's the bad.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

And uh it should be consistent, but you said you never know who's looking at it. That's right. That's right. In class, we do the Myers Briggs, as I mentioned, and you know, they divide up on different sides of the room, and for whatever uh variable in the Myers Briggs, there's always somebody that's opposite you, and that could just be different than you, it could be an opposition of you, you just never know. That's right. So your message was to, you know, really have your brand kind of clear and clean to who you are and represent, obviously. That's right. But you, you know, if you're looking to get into a company and you want to represent on the issues, you got to be in that company to represent the issues.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

So I think everybody's used to a background check. Okay, that's the legal, that's the legal stuff. Your background check that anybody can do at at any time with the device in your pocket is okay, let me look and see what their background is here on social media, what their brand is, and is that something that's going to complement our company when they're wearing a shirt with our logo on it?

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

And they're out in public and they're representing our product and what we're doing or our service. So just think it's important to hold the mirror up and get everybody to realize that for many of them it's been a diary, and if that's what they want their brand to be, and that feeds into where they're heading, that's great. But there's a there's a real level of responsibility they have to take with their personal brand.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah. And you just said it again, you said hold a mirror up. You use that quite a bit, and I like that metaphor for you know, having somebody to bounce things off of, getting feedback, part of the class is getting feedback, how you are perceived by others, like what you think versus what they think, and really trying to get congruent there. But um, that was great. And and you also recommended, you know, we can laugh because you know, most students want like, yeah, 100k and they want to be vice president in a couple weeks and that promotion really fast. But you said, you know, the first job's the hardest one to get, so get it. And uh you use the you use the phrase raise your hand. Um, because most students are thinking about all right, I'm gonna get there, and then when's my raise my promotion? But you you were saying if you want to raise a promotion, then you gotta raise your hand and you gotta do some of the things that are necessary to get there.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

I think it's important uh ask ask for more. Companies want again, you can't you can't teach people to be nice, so you hire nice people. You want thinkers, you want people who are disciplined, who are organized, you want to uh you know, you want to make certain that that the individuals are going to represent represent your brand well, but a polite way of asking for more money, hey, is there anything anything else I can do? Are there any additional responsibilities that I can take on? And then companies understand if you do that well, and as you're in as your responsibilities increase, it's a trade-off, right? You're trading the work for dollars, and it's in a way to make more make more money, be recognized for promotions, uh, consider promotional considerations and things of that sort, but don't wait. Take take can take control of your career and your development. Yeah, and that can some of the simplest things can be just within raising your hands, uh raising your hand within an organization.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Well, and then you know, I mean you're selling yourself.

unknown 20:05

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

And I liked your approach. I've heard a little bit on this theme, but you said in set in selling yourself, you know, you're asking the people that matter a question like, what problems do you have that I can take off your shoulder? I really like that. So if you think of sales, you think of selling a product, you come in, you start telling about the product. But you're saying instead of talking about yourself and what you did and the promo, like what what issues and problems do you have that I can relieve you of, or I can take some of that burden off? And I thought that was a great message to slide in there. Um yeah, and then you said that uh by raising your hand and saying yes, uh, one of the students asked you what was maybe a pivotal turning point, and you mentioned taking um an opportunity in Latin America to do. Maybe you could talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Yeah, so you know, you you join a you join a company and they ask you to do things and you say yes, and you say yes, and typically you you you benefit from that. Um at the time I was asked to join the international business unit of a company. And my mentor in the organization said, Look, I think you're going to be approached and asked about international uh whatever you do, don't take Latin America. And um so I went and had the meeting, came back after um the meeting, went back to my mentor. He's like, Well, how'd it go? I said, Well, I took Latin America. Slides over the house. Absolutely. So um, and it's just it's it's a it's a great, it's a greater challenge than other areas of the world can be. And this at this time, I mean, this was early, early 2000s. And um, it's just uh you have currency that devalues every six or seven years in some of the countries. You have political turmoil. Um, some of those countries you just don't have a uh stable middle class. So, and then you're going and you're selling premium American brand. Products to into an economy that may or may not be able to support much growth. So 42, 44 countries, Mexico, Central America, South America, the Caribbean as well. And everybody's like, oh my goodness, you're going to be on a beach every day. You don't sell industrial products on the beach at all. But it was interesting. There's just a lot of things that you can learn. You know, a couple of we had some employee incidents that occurred that you won't find in a textbook anywhere. You're welcome to share if you want, but yeah. So we had a uh we had a couple of employees who were they were in uh they were high. And they were at the plant and they were um they both had they had shotguns and they shot at each other and just hurt each other. Um but at the uh you know you're not gonna find that in a textbook anywhere. And what do you do when you get that call in the management 101? Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Um some countries you'd have to have bodyguards to travel to. Um there were some things that were happening in some of those countries that you know you had a potential to be uh kidnapped at 1130 at night, take you to the ATM, hold you until after midnight, because then you could get another daily allotment out after midnight. So just different things. But uh but at the end of the day, it was a great experience in that it opened my eyes to, I mean, when you you learn more when you struggle and when you're when you're in difficult business situations. And when it's harder to sell to get the growth, harder to market, harder to do business, you learn, uh, you learn more about the team, you learn more about your products, you learn more about uh your uh your your processes and and and what you know what opportunities you have to to improve upon.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah. Yeah, and I thought it was great in your presentation. You kind of listed, you know, different jobs, different roles, different titles. You listed those titles green for money, you know, title gets you more money, but then you also listed jobs that gave you more time with family. You listed family as green, right? Because you also said time with family is money. Right. And I could really hear the students weighing that.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Yeah. It's it's just as good as money. We don't realize that when we're younger, because it's about it's the money and that gets you the things. And unfortunately, until uh as we as we progress through the years and you realize, well, I wish I had more time to do that. Well, and time typically equates to family or friends, and you don't get that back. So when you have you have that that life balance, yeah, that's green. That's as good as money.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

That's that was great. And because you had you created options for yourself, you could pivot when you didn't have time for family to have time with family. Right. That's right. That was awesome. So good message there. And then uh the other thing, you you did a nice vertical with sales. You said don't be afraid to like, you know, kind of go left and right. And you said something that that struck me as as fascinating. You said when you went from sales to marketing, you had kind of a superpower. Maybe you could talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Yeah, so by being in sales first and then moving into marketing, I knew from the marketing chair what the sales team needed and what would work. If you just come up one vertical, you don't have, you don't have that that vision, you don't have that sight, that line of sight of what's actually needed. You have an idea of what might work. And then you have you have the respect from the sales team as well. One of them moving into the marketing role and then ultimately leading the marketing team. It just allowed us to be effective and um it's no different than you know, talking to someone who has been there wherever, whatever there is. Right. If it's someone who is a few years older, someone who's retiring. I mean, I think one thing I missed with Latin America, I mean, it's it's it's getting um you you have you have the ability to know teach people to look around the corner a little bit, or help them as they're going around the corner. Yeah. Uh Latin America, real quick. So got that role. I was told not to take it. The first thing I did, I grabbed two individuals who had recently retired from the company who were 30 and 32 years older than I. Went went and sat down, had lunch, said, All right, tell me what I'm going to run into. Tell me what you learned, what were your lessons so that I don't repeat those. Yeah. And one of the things I shared with the students was that um don't be afraid. The the gray hairs, the white hair, they've they've it's just more time and they have the ability to help you navigate moving forward so you don't make those same mistakes. Companies want you to take risk if you fail, fail quickly, and try to minimize the exposure to the organization, but there's a lot of experience, and not everybody asks for help, or and it's it's just a conversation. Yeah, it's it's lunch and tell me your story, right? And they can help you see what's up ahead around the cloud. That was awesome too.

unknown 26:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Yeah, I and I was fascinated. I think the amount of energy and presence you had, like you were the employer to them, so they ask you a lot of questions like, Well, what are you looking for at us? And you know, we teach a cleary mind here and try to practically apply that. And later we'll come back to your talk and we'll sort of map the things you said. But in in looking for certain qualities from our students in terms of talent, you you uh started by saying, I want to hire somebody who's just a nice good person. Right, right. Because you, you know, I think you said uh slow to hire, quick to fire. Correct. Yeah. So get the right people on board. Um, and then thinkers, you put, I think that came up four or five times in your presentation. You want people that can really think for themselves. And what does that look like and sound like?

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Or yeah, no, great, great question. And and it's everybody's thinking. I mean, you're in a meeting, you're sitting there thinking about something, but not everybody will engage and participate. And you were hired to be in that company, you were invited to be at that table for that meeting. And usually those who have a louder voice, uh, they they always speak, though those individuals. But you were invited to that meeting to participate, to engage. Your thinking, let that be known. So it's thinking, it's communication, but it's also uh collectively, and you know, every everybody has a voice, or you wouldn't be invited to the meeting. Not everybody has a vote, but everybody has a voice as you were invited to that meeting and it's your opportunity to participate. And if you do it in a respectful, in a respectful way, no matter what it is, there should be a little to have a uh a productive business conversation.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Uh leave the motion aside, have facts, have data, speak from those points, and you have the opportunity to uh to show that you're thinking again, you're already thinking, communicate, yeah, um, participate, engage, and that will resonate with with leadership as well and can help create opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

And then you kind of matched up the next ones, like um being organized and on time and getting things done and having discipline, and you look for those things like if you've done athletics or if you've been in the military, or you have uh, you know, other clubs, student things, or activities, or a job while you're going to like all of those things are obvious as you're kind of interviewing and looking at that new talent.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

The whole list of things uh that I presented uh to the to the group that they don't realize, everybody thinks it has to just be that work experience. And ultimately, how do you connect that? But this is about what you've done again, your brand, showing the pattern. If you're if you're an athlete, if you're very involved in student government, extracurricular activities, and you have that and you have good grades, you're showing me your discipline. Yeah, you're showing me with that um, you're showing me what I should expect uh as if you're an intern. Yeah. Uh an internship, paid, unpaid, or it's a full-time job that we're bringing you in for. And there was a question about what's the difference between interviewing for an international. That was a great question. It was interviewing for an internship or a full-time job. It's one and the same.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

Because I'm bringing you in. I have a need right now. Internship, maybe it's not a full-time job yet. If you do a good job, I hope that I'm going to be able to find a full-time job for you down the road. So you have to act like it's it's for a full-time job.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Yeah. I mean, even the student asked, it was like, oh, okay. I mean, it's obvious when you hear it, but when you're still young and not thinking in those terms. Right. And uh write a thank you after the interview. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

I was surprised. So uh as I was in the job market here recently and just Googling that, and I was surprised to find that uh only 47% of people even write a thank you email. Email. Email. Yeah, yeah. And uh, I mean, how simple is that? We're living, we're living in in the digital world. And uh just just a follow-up. And then the other thing I shared is if you feel that if you've been ghosted, these hiring managers, it's it's a big job to hire individuals. There are a lot of lot of resumes, a lot of candidates coming at a hiring manager. If you haven't heard, until you've heard no, keep reaching out with a respectful cadence of time and find until you hear no. Um, I was able to do that. And uh, you know, it's it it proved uh beneficial.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Well, timing-wise, I love that you know, you created enough cards in your deck of options that you know you kind of landed a dream job for you and and something for the next, I don't know, five to ten to twenty years, who knows? So I like how you said to support the Barry family. And uh congratulations on that. Yeah, thank you. Um yeah, so I like to do this to kind of pull out the unique things I heard that I haven't ever heard before. So thanks a million for sharing all these words of wisdom. Is there anything that you would like to share that you think we haven't talked about, or you maybe didn't drop in class, or anything that's come up since then, or anything you want to say before we close the conversation?

SPEAKER_02 31:53

You know, perfect doesn't exist for anything. And even as as it's easy to put together, that this is all hindsight. Yeah, right. So I'm not I'm not perfect in all of these. But these are things that I've seen in the mirror that I th others have when they've held up the mirror for me.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

So it's an opportunity to to pass it along.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Um, but perfect doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

And when you stumble, you go through it. I think I brought that up a couple of times.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

100%.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

When there's something tough, just the only way to go through it is to go through it and get to the other side and move on. And that's that's the way life stacks up.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Yeah, I think I even wrote that down. You said, you know, own it, take responsibility, take it face on, and move through it. And you know, because people tend to not to, they tend to kick it down the road a little bit. So um, yeah, and I think students struggle with that because they're sitting in their chair and they see you with the title and your picture, and like, oh, that's the end result, right? But here's the journey, they now hear that all along the way, and uh appreciated your presence and your energy and your presentation. I know the students loved it, so thanks a million. And um yeah, we'll have to have you back again. But uh appreciate all the wisdom you left with our students today.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Love to help, love to share, love to help the school.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

All right, it was awesome. All right, and